Not for me...I sleep just fine when I do lay down....for the Little One. I feel like DH and I, aka Rookie Parents, are the main reason we're having sleep difficulties with R. We just don't know what to do, and we aren't always on the same page with what we should do. We read the "Healthy Sleep Habits" book, which was good, but it is still a little confusing to me.
Here are the areas I'm unsure of. Maybe some of you experienced mamas or caregivers can chime in with your experience...pretty please? Otherwise I'm afraid we're developing too many bad sleep habits.
Baby R. is 15 1/2 weeks old right now. She's never been a huge sleeper (about 12-13 hours of sleep a day), but she was doing pretty well sleeping longer stretches over night (5-7 hours followed by another 2-3 with a feeding in between). Then around 12-13 weeks, her nighttime sleep got really messed up some how. She began waking 2-5 times at night instead of the 1. I chalked it up to her 3 month growth spurt and fed her most of the times she woke up. After a week or two of this, we realized she was no longer eating a lot, so we began to try and soothe her back to sleep some of the extra times she woke. I thought we had broken her of that habit because we were back on the longer stretches for 1 week or so...until last night. We lost track of how many times she woke up.
I think it's time to teach her to soothe herself back to sleep. Where do I start? I'm not a huge fan of the cry it out method, but DH is.
Also, to swaddle or not? We've swaddled her since she was born, but how long do you keep swaddling? She often times fights the swaddle when we put her in it at night, but once she's asleep, she seems to stay asleep longer in the swaddle. Just to try something else, we used a sleep sack where her arms were free one night. She likes sleeping with them over her head during the day time, so we thought maybe the swaddle was the problem with her nighttime waking. She woke numerous times because she'd get her arms moving all around, so we said we still needed to swaddle at night. What do you think?
Crib or swing? She sleeps all the time in her crib at night. During the day time, it's a mix between swing and crib. The swing goes back to her reflux days, but she seems to be doing better with that (she's still on meds though). DH is able to get her to nap in her crib really well during the day. He's not home all the time, however, and I can hardly ever get her to nap in the crib. She fights sleep when I try to soothe her and put her down. She will literally scream and scream when I pick her up to go to sleep. I used to be able to rock her and then put her in her swing or crib, but lately she won't even let me rock her. (I think she'd rather be awake socializing than sleeping.) What I've had to do lately is put her in the swing and just rock her to sleep that way. The last few days she's taken extra long naps in her swing (2-3 hours), which I'm wondering if it's a factor in her not sleeping so well at night right now. I feel like that's another bad habit we're developing. Right now she's been sleeping for 2 hours in her swing (10am-12), and every time I peek in to check on her, she's stirring as if she's waking up. She's even opened her eyes a few times and stretched. Then she just goes back to sleep. Should we be putting a restriction on how long she naps and where she naps? What do you think?
Pacifier or not? We used to give her an orthodontic-shaped pacifier most times to help with the soothing to sleep. It worked and she would usually spit it out shortly after she feel asleep. I was having some problems with her nursing (biting and giving me blisters because of a poor latch), so we switched to the Soothies. They were recommended in the book we read about smooth transitions between breastfeeding and bottle feeding. The latch did improve with the soothies, but she no longer likes to take them to help calm down for sleep. She just spits them out of her mouth, if she even takes it at all. She likes sucking on her hands, but they don't soothe her to sleep like a pacifier did. Do we go back to the orthodontic ones? What do you think?
Bed time? This is another area we're struggling with. We tried putting her to bed earlier (7-8pm) when we noticed she started taking an early evening nap. We figured that just meant she was tired and ready for an earlier bedtime (she had been going to sleep 10-11pm). That didn't work. She'd just wake for extra feedings. We thought we found the magic time of 9-9:30pm to be laying her down, but you can only manipulate her schedule so much in the evening. She can't stay awake for 2 hours, and usually needs to go down with 1- 1/2 hours of waking, so what happens if she wakes at 7pm? We try to put her to bed at 8:30pm, but that doesn't work either. Ahh...all the decisions make me go crazy. I wish we just knew what to do. And my motherly instinct isn't helping with ideas much. What do you think?
Any of the sleep areas you can weigh in on would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.
Sincerely,
Rookie Mama
Here are the areas I'm unsure of. Maybe some of you experienced mamas or caregivers can chime in with your experience...pretty please? Otherwise I'm afraid we're developing too many bad sleep habits.
Baby R. is 15 1/2 weeks old right now. She's never been a huge sleeper (about 12-13 hours of sleep a day), but she was doing pretty well sleeping longer stretches over night (5-7 hours followed by another 2-3 with a feeding in between). Then around 12-13 weeks, her nighttime sleep got really messed up some how. She began waking 2-5 times at night instead of the 1. I chalked it up to her 3 month growth spurt and fed her most of the times she woke up. After a week or two of this, we realized she was no longer eating a lot, so we began to try and soothe her back to sleep some of the extra times she woke. I thought we had broken her of that habit because we were back on the longer stretches for 1 week or so...until last night. We lost track of how many times she woke up.
I think it's time to teach her to soothe herself back to sleep. Where do I start? I'm not a huge fan of the cry it out method, but DH is.
Also, to swaddle or not? We've swaddled her since she was born, but how long do you keep swaddling? She often times fights the swaddle when we put her in it at night, but once she's asleep, she seems to stay asleep longer in the swaddle. Just to try something else, we used a sleep sack where her arms were free one night. She likes sleeping with them over her head during the day time, so we thought maybe the swaddle was the problem with her nighttime waking. She woke numerous times because she'd get her arms moving all around, so we said we still needed to swaddle at night. What do you think?
Crib or swing? She sleeps all the time in her crib at night. During the day time, it's a mix between swing and crib. The swing goes back to her reflux days, but she seems to be doing better with that (she's still on meds though). DH is able to get her to nap in her crib really well during the day. He's not home all the time, however, and I can hardly ever get her to nap in the crib. She fights sleep when I try to soothe her and put her down. She will literally scream and scream when I pick her up to go to sleep. I used to be able to rock her and then put her in her swing or crib, but lately she won't even let me rock her. (I think she'd rather be awake socializing than sleeping.) What I've had to do lately is put her in the swing and just rock her to sleep that way. The last few days she's taken extra long naps in her swing (2-3 hours), which I'm wondering if it's a factor in her not sleeping so well at night right now. I feel like that's another bad habit we're developing. Right now she's been sleeping for 2 hours in her swing (10am-12), and every time I peek in to check on her, she's stirring as if she's waking up. She's even opened her eyes a few times and stretched. Then she just goes back to sleep. Should we be putting a restriction on how long she naps and where she naps? What do you think?
Pacifier or not? We used to give her an orthodontic-shaped pacifier most times to help with the soothing to sleep. It worked and she would usually spit it out shortly after she feel asleep. I was having some problems with her nursing (biting and giving me blisters because of a poor latch), so we switched to the Soothies. They were recommended in the book we read about smooth transitions between breastfeeding and bottle feeding. The latch did improve with the soothies, but she no longer likes to take them to help calm down for sleep. She just spits them out of her mouth, if she even takes it at all. She likes sucking on her hands, but they don't soothe her to sleep like a pacifier did. Do we go back to the orthodontic ones? What do you think?
Bed time? This is another area we're struggling with. We tried putting her to bed earlier (7-8pm) when we noticed she started taking an early evening nap. We figured that just meant she was tired and ready for an earlier bedtime (she had been going to sleep 10-11pm). That didn't work. She'd just wake for extra feedings. We thought we found the magic time of 9-9:30pm to be laying her down, but you can only manipulate her schedule so much in the evening. She can't stay awake for 2 hours, and usually needs to go down with 1- 1/2 hours of waking, so what happens if she wakes at 7pm? We try to put her to bed at 8:30pm, but that doesn't work either. Ahh...all the decisions make me go crazy. I wish we just knew what to do. And my motherly instinct isn't helping with ideas much. What do you think?
Any of the sleep areas you can weigh in on would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.
Sincerely,
Rookie Mama
I wouldn't worry too much about bad habits at this stage, just stick with whatever is working. We still have C co-sleep with us, and I sometimes worry that she'll be in our bed until she's 30, but at some point you have to put aside worries about future habits in order to survive the here and now.
ReplyDeleteI wish I had more advice, but I don't know what to tell you! I'm quite the rookie myself, so I look forward to seeing what advice others give.
Oh C - I am not sure how much help I am, Elizabeth has always been a great sleeper at night but since 4 months she has slept in our bed at night (seriously, I think the kid is just genetically programmed to like her sleep like her daddy!). I too am with B in that I need to get her out of our bed before too long (aka - Baby B2 comes along), but for now I don't want to mess with what is working. As far as a schedule to give you some context, here is how our days usually go - E wakes up at 8am - takes a 6oz bottle, I put her down for a nap in her pack & play between 9:30-10. She is pretty rotten at taking this morning nap and yes, there have been some tears (depending on the day)...but I am trying to be consistent and she goes down with a pacifier. Total sleep 30 minutes - 1 hour. Yeah, not great. But she is always cheery when she gets up, even if she went down crying.
ReplyDeleteBottle #2 - 11am 6oz. Play independently on the floor / take a walk / I will eat lunch.
Bottle #3 - 2pm 6oz. She usually falls asleep before finishing this bottle and I move her up to our bed and lay down and take a nap with her as well. Nap: usually 2 hours. This is her best nap of the day.
Bottle #4 - 5pm 6oz.
5-6pm play in highchair while I get dinner ready.
6pm 2-4oz of solids while Greg and I eat dinner.
She usually falls asleep on Greg around 7pm for a short 1 hour nap or so.
Bottle #5 - 8pm 6oz. She usually falls asleep shortly after this on my lap and when I am ready to go to bed, I move her to bed with me.
She is down for the night and sleeps until 7:30-8am typically.
Elizabeth goes down without a swaddle and has actually never used one. She used a sleep sack (with arms free) until she was about 5 months old and then she just wears a onesie to bed each night because it has been so hot lately. I am thinking about putting her back in a sleep sack when it gets a bit cooler. She does love sleeping with her arms above her head. And she NEEDS her pacifier to go to sleep...oh, I don't want to think about fighting that battle to get her to give it up.
I am currently reading the Healthy Habits book and one thing I do recall reading was that more sleep during the day didn't necessarily mean less sleep at night. Actually, I think some of the best sleepers take great naps during the day as well - per the book. And actually, I have noticed that with Elizabeth - she is harder to go down at night if she hasn't had a good afternoon nap because I think she is overtired and fights it more.
So, in all - I am not sure if this helped - but just wanted you to know that we are all in the trenches with you and seriously, babies are so hard to figure out sometimes! ;) Good luck and I hope you all get the rest and restorative sleep you ALL need.
Thanks for sharing your experience, M!
DeleteOkay, in my crazy long comment above, I forgot to mention why I think she sleeps so well in our bed. I think it is because I can readjust the pacifier if it falls out right away after she starts stirring and before she fully wakes up. I have noticed with naps that if the pacifier falls out while she is in the pack and play and I am downstairs, she is usually much more awake by the time I go in to reinsert it that it is harder to get her to settle back down. Again, a reason I need to work on her to self-soothe better, but for now...we are going with what is working.
ReplyDeleteI haven't had time to read through the comments so forgive me if I repeat!
ReplyDeleteWe're big crib sleepers at our house. It just works for our family. Right about the age your little one is now is when we start getting into a routine with sleeping. For us, we use the same place every time (ie. crib) so the baby learns that that place is meant for sleep. So you may want to start there, if that works for you guys.
Another huge thing is to watch for signs of sleep (yawning, rubbing eyes, etc) and put the baby down at the first sign of sleep, no earlier, no later. That's what I've always done and it seems to work well.
Another thing we do is try to establish the eat, play, sleep routine. So they eat right when they wake up from their nap, then they play, then they go to sleep. And keep repeating that pattern if you can. Of course there are always exceptions, like growth spurts, but for us that has always worked well.
If she hasn't found her thumb yet and/or you would like to keep her on a paci, I would not pick her up right away when she cries at night but use her paci. I would try the old one and see if she likes it again. Our boys always starting spitting out their pacis right around 3 months, never to take them again! They're all thumb suckers. Hopefully she'll find it soon and that will help too!
That's about all I can think of right offhand. The sleep thing is tricky to navigate and mind bending considering half the time you're trying to figure it out, you're sleep deprived! Praying for you.
Please feel free to email if you'd like to chat more :)
Reneespez at hotmail dot com.
Thanks, R. I may email you with a few more questions.
DeleteOh, and I think 2 hour naps are totally reasonable. I've always been of the impression that "sleep begets sleep", so more sleep during the day can actually improve nighttime sleeping. But that's just my crazy logic!
ReplyDeleteI see this more about learning about your baby and her needs specifically, so no need to be worried about being a rookie! There has been only one you and one her ever and its right now...so what people say may or may not help. That being said...
ReplyDeleteI'm a rookie too! I would love to just have Sam tell me if he wants the swaddle or not. A few nights we've left it off and survived. And other nights he wouldn't even go to sleep without it. I guess it just depends. Some nights I have a harder time going to sleep too so I guess it makes sense that something doesn't work magically every night!
We don't use pacis, just never had a need for them I guess. If he needed them to sleep that would be one thing, but usually I just let him nurse until at some point he drops the nip and/or I can slip it out :) Sam will fall asleep after nursing if he's tired. If not, he'll stay awake. I nurse him when he wakes up as well. I know this won't last forever and he's fallen asleep other ways as well, its just what he seems to enjoy the most.
As far as developing bad habits? I guess three months is a little early? Maybe by 9+ months that's possible but I wouldn't spend time worrying about that.
We do the co-sleeper. He starts off there anywhere from 8 to 10pm (i've been noticing it creep up slowly) and then wakes up a few times (normally 2 or 3) to feed, but doesn't even open his eyes and goes right back down in his cosleeper afterwards. I thought we would really cosleep but the little guy squirms if he's too close to me for too long and sleeps better on his own just close to us. Its working out as well as I could have hoped for I guess.
Also, last week I started back at work part-time and he was really upset. As in, wouldn't let me put him down to bed and kept crying every time. I had to sleep with him all night. Its like he needed to learn to trust me again (and daddy's watching him while I'm at work!). Almost broke my heart but its what he needed and I really think its directly related to me being away (it was the longest I'd been away). I guess its also possible it was teething but the other signals weren't there for that. Maybe your work has had something to do with it?
Also, from what my midwife said, sleep patterns change all the time as they are developing. A baby that is sleeping through the night will suddenly stop, for no obvious reason. I like that we're close enough to respond to his cues as night before it wakes him up too much so that he won't go back to bed.
Also, he sleeps well during the day when I'm there, but sporadic short naps for daddy.
How was that for an all over the place response!?
oh yeah, and i'm aware that the short naps with daddy are 99% due to the fact that he doesn't get the comfort/nursing that he gets with me. HOWEVER, today I was able to nurse him, pop him in the car seat where he just barely fell asleep by the time we got home, took him out and swaddled him and then just barely nursed him again (he was actually almost asleep and i helped it along) and he slept for 3 hours. crazy.
Deleteoh, and he sleeps on his stomach. has since about 6 weeks because he sleeps longer.
oh, and do you do a lot of stuff during the day? i heard its good to tire them out so that they need the sleep. totally unscientific advice that i've never read anywhere but maybe that would help? today's epic nap was after a baby class so he was pretty tired after all that fun!
Thanks, A, for your advice and encouragement. Interesting though about work..maybe that's why she won't let me put her down for a nap like she used to (because I worked last week). Hmm...
DeleteI would just try to follow your baby's cues. I have 4 kids, and they were all really poor sleepers until they hit about 9 months. Guess they just liked to eat. We co-slept because that was the only way to GET any sleep, and that worked for us, but every family is different. Something that you didn't mention is temperature. How is her room? My kids all had different temperature preferences, is hers too hot, too cold, etc? Something different to think about. Also, white noise, like a fan, goes a long way to helping babies stay asleep, in our house anyway. Just some ideas, just know that you're doing a great job and you'll have some adjusting to do as parents (even after 10 years, we still do!)
ReplyDeleteYes, we love white noise and have her sound machine running at night because our street can be a little noisier. During naps I'll sometimes use white noise or else a musical CD. And temperature....yes, good point. We've wondered what her temperature preference is and have thought maybe her room is too warm at night- even with the AC running.
DeleteHow fussy is she when she wakes up? Is it possible shes outgrown her medication dose?
ReplyDeleteNot terribly fussy. We did just get her Zantac adjusted up last week to match her current weight. Good thinking though!
DeleteGas. I think your dear baby has gas. How is your burping routine? At her age, I found that it was easy to stop trying to burp like I did when they were younger and if she is anything like my Baby A was, oh no! Without burping they will be up up up every hour. I say no to swings, chairs, anything but the bed you want her to sleep in at night during the day. I learned things the hard way with Baby A...we use to rock her to sleep and to this day, she still wants us to hold her and has a hard time going to sleep.
ReplyDeleteSo, I am now a total covert to allowing them to self soothe.
My Baby Joe learned to do this...out of pure survival cause we have the toddler wanting our attention and he is so MUCH easier and happier and such a better sleeper than she is!
Night and day.
But, we still practice burping him like mad after every feeding AND are you ready--holding him up 20 minutes after every feeding...which ends up saving you all sorts of grief I can't even begin to extol the virtues of holding them up in a 90 degree position after eating enough.
Now, he is literally sleeping from 7 pm to 2 or 3 am then goes back down unitl 7 am...just like the babies I heard existed but never thought I'd have one.
Interesting thought...I HAVE noticed her burping a lot more after she eats and even quite awhile after she eats during the daytime. I'll pick her up and hold her upright for awhile and all of a sudden she burps. I'm like, "where the heck did that come from?" You ate an hour ago. Haven't thought about this in relation to her nighttime sleeping/eating. I do usually hold her up at in incline after her nighttime feeding...it usually takes at least 20 minutes to put her back down. Hadn't thought about the 90 degree position though. Will try it out tonight.
DeleteI second what Hebrews said; don't worry about routines or bad habits at this point. She is still a very young baby. This is a really good article on crying it out that you might want your husband to read. It really helps to put things in perspective. http://www.drmomma.org/2009/12/train-up-child-in-way-he-should-go.html
ReplyDeleteThanks, I'll check it out and have DH do the same!
DeleteOh how I feel your pain. I wish I could offer you some brilliant advice but I always found myself that no two babies are alike. Some are very sensitive to every change, every noise, just plain everything and others just sleep no matter what. One thing I am going to do this second time round is watch more closely for cues of sleepiness instead of trying to force a routine. Babies are always changing so they can stay up longer between naps or they need less naps or they start teething or they get sick or they need to cluster feed and everything messes up their schedule. I was told that sleep begets sleep but could never get my boy to sleep til I cut him back to one nap a day. One thing we never did was let him cry. Couldn't do it. I am not totally against letting them cry for a time but it isn't something I wanted to have to experience.
ReplyDeleteThanks...I'm watching those cues like a hawk!
DeleteOh, I forgot to mention. My youngest is 8 months old and still has to be swaddled every night and naptime. There is nothing wrong with it. I recently read somewhere that it is perfectly normal for some babies to need swaddling up to one year, and I think mine will be one of those. There is a wonderful product called a Woombie that makes swaddling older babies much easier, and doesn't allow them to "break out" in the middle of the night.
ReplyDeleteHow could you tell her still needs to be swaddled...squirming and such throughout the night or something else? Thanks for the Woombie recommendation. I'll look into it. We just bought the large size of a SwadddleMe wrap thingie. It's pretty big on her right now, but not sure how long it'll fit.
DeleteShe just can't sleep. Fussing, squirming, waking up and crying. Zip her into the Woombie and she is good to go. She still wakes up once or twice a night to nurse, but then goes right back to sleep. I should say, we zip her into the Woombie and then swaddle her in a cotton blanket over that, both for warmth and because she has to be completely immobilized to sleep. Have you thought about putting her in bed with you when she wakes up, at least until she is a little older?
Deleteget those burps out! Have you seen the position where you support them by their chin and then pat, pat, pat their backs and lean them forward so the burp will come out?
ReplyDeleteNurses at the hospital showed us this. At night...we want to (rightly so) put them back down as soon as possible. And, this is where the burp problems can manifest big time.
BURP! BURP! BURP! The more you burp, the better she will sleep.
How many total hours is she sleeping? How long is her longest stretch?
Yes...I know the burping position you're talking about. We either do that, or more commonly, over the shoulder.
DeleteUsually, she sleeps about 12 hours total. Sometimes more (13-15). She definitely does better if she sleeps about 14 hours a day. The longest stretch was 5-7 hours one time over night. That was pretty good. Now she can't go that long without needing to be soothed back to sleep. Usually, it's only 3-4 hours once at night. Not terrible, but she was doing better at 5-7 hours followed by another 2-3 for a total of about 8-10 hours overnight.
I will add about swaddling...my daughter had to be swaddled for a long time (I don't exactly remember how long but she is my difficult sleeper). My Baby Joe who is the same age as your R...stopped being swaddled a few weeks ago! He does not need it! They are all so different. He uses the sleep sack and is good to go. He goes down around 6 or 7 pm gets up around 2am then sleeps again until about 6 am. My husband feeds him overnight because he stays calm with him and goes right back to bed...if I feed him he wants to stay up and play.
ReplyDeleteGetting him up "early" at 6 am works because then he takes a morning nap at 9 am for an hour or two and this gives me time to do morning stuff with the preschooler.
Just to add, having the long stretch only be 3-4 hours is what is rough on you. If the first long stretch of sleep is more like 5-7 hours then we can cope, no? It's when you can only count on 3-4 hours that makes the night so ROUGH!
My daughter was like that. It was so hard. She didn't want to go to bed until 9 PM even as a newborn then would get up at 12 am then 3 am then UP FOR THE day at 5:30 am. She would take a "long nap" in the day, 3 hours, totally exhausted at around 3 PM...it was maddening to say the least.
I will also add then some babies and children only require 12 hours of sleep. YIKES! When it is less than 14 it is SO HARD. Somehow the 10-12 hour sleepers is such SO much rougher than the 12-14 hour sleepers! I hope Baby R is not a 12 hour sleeper. I really really do. But if she is, please know I am here for you and will be praying for you and that I fully understand how hard it is. My daughter literally has slept like a working adult her whole life. 8 hours of sleep overnight...and it is so hard on us. We HAVE to go to bed when she does or we are just miserable. Which has left us with NO time to ourselves, not even enough time to put the coffee on for the next morning!
Yes! Thanks for understanding why things are rough right now. I feel like not many/any body understands. The good news is- I need to do an update- she's been sleeping longer days lately...14 hours. It's glorious!!!
DeleteI know you all ready got tons of advice...I am a big fan of swaddling- we had to break him of it when he turned 5 months b/c he learned to roll...but prior to that is was a LIFESAVER!!
ReplyDeleteI say crib right away...we had M in the crib at 2 days old. Some may disagree...but it just worked for our household. Now, if I can only break him from the swing during his naps!!
I think whoever about suggested the eat, play, sleep routine, its from a book called the baby whisper...its a great routine, its a "loose" routine, but M responds so well to it and he knows what to expect next. M hated Paci's so I can not comment on that.
Last thing is the gas!! I agree with above..sometimes if they will not settle down, I figured out it was the gas!! Baby whisper book- talks ton about this..when in doubt it the gas!!!!
yes, we did the crib right away at night when we brought her home. And she still takes most of her naps in the swing...let me know how you break M of that habit. We'll be needing to do it in the next month or so, I think.
Delete